Alcoholics Anon, Narcotics anon, they all require a belief in higher power. Do they work for non believers?
Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics anonymous, they all require a belief in higher power or some kind of god. Do they work for non believers, for atheists or agnostics?
Or are those people destined to fail those programs because the programs are designed for believers?
I have asked this question already in cultures. But thought maybe i would get more responses from Religion & Spirituality
Im not going to one of those groups.
Im not a drug user and only drink at parties.
I was asking out of curiousity.
As a former AA member (and what I suppose you’d refer to as a "sober alcoholic" since I haven’t had a drink in almost 10 years) I can tell you that if you went to an AA meeting and asked this question people would be screaming that the program is "spiritual and not religious" and that your higher power can be anything you want it to be, including a doorknob. Then, after the meeting was over, you’d all hold hands and say the Lord’s Prayer. Yep. I’m serious.
This is one of the many bizarre and contradictory things about AA. Of course it’s religious, the 12 steps are ALL about God, the primary text says the program is about "fitting ourselves to be of maximum service to God and our fellows"…yet its members claim it isn’t religious. Preposterous, isn’t it?
Now, do people who aren’t religious fail in the program? They sure do. And so do people who ARE religious. That’s another bizarre and contradictory fact not only about AA but about the whole 12 step based "addiction treatment" industry: it doesn’t work very well for ANYONE but it continues to be the almost the only game in town.
Go figure!
September 15th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
I don’t know, but there are non-theistic based recovery groups out there as well.
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September 15th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
I know an atheist who tried but could not do the GA program.
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September 15th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
There are other groups like Rational Recovery out there.
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September 15th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
I honestly think ,not. The goal is submitting to the higher power or a god .
GOD BLESS
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September 15th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
The programs really aren’t designed specifically for believers. In fact, they have been criticized by many religious institutions because they don’t require a belief in God, just a belief in a "higher power". That higher power can be anything you want. You can believe that the higher power is genetics or biology or whatever you want. All you have to admit is that you’re not the biggest thing in the universe, and that’s not too hard for most people.
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September 15th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
I guess so. The only thing about AA and all of those supposed religious groups is that they still go by man’s efforts and not by the work that Jesus did on the cross to give us victory over these addictions. So, go for it! But you won’t find the healing power of Christ in the little room.
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September 15th, 2009 at 11:04 pm
They will tell you no. They will tell you that unless you believe in God then it will not work for you and work like hell to get you to convert.
Personally, I don’t think a higher power even comes into it.
weeder
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September 15th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
In aa and in na, you can believe your pencil is your god, as long as you believe something is.
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Personal experience.
September 16th, 2009 at 12:12 am
The "higher power" doesn’t neccesarily have to be god. It could just be AA or a spiritual guide etc. Or at that desperate time people may begin to believe in god though AA/NA. I know of several people who started agnostic but converted whilst recovering.
this would be very interesting research if it hasn’t been done!
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September 16th, 2009 at 1:01 am
Yes, use the G.O.D.= group of drunks as your higher power to get G.O.D. good orderly direction
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September 16th, 2009 at 1:45 am
Your higher power doesn’t have to be "God". It can be the group as a whole (they have more power than you because they are staying sober) or whatever you want to make your higher power. I know lots of people who aren’t religious and have stayed sober in AA. If you are a member of the above groups get a sponsor and ask them for their opinion.
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September 16th, 2009 at 1:59 am
Tell me one that dose not believe: where did the first atom came from that split into two, then four, then eight, …. into all there is today? And how did they happen to split into loads of different kinds of atoms that came together just right to make ALL there is today?
The answer is GOD!
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September 16th, 2009 at 2:07 am
A higher power can be you. Yes, they work.
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September 16th, 2009 at 2:45 am
Yeah I think they do. Actually I know they do. It is a belief in a power greater than yourself. It is up to you to specify what that power is. For some it is the group of AA that is their higher power. Nowhere in AA is it stated what your belief has to be. There is something greater than all of us individually. When you find that, if it can help you on the road to recovery then it works.
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September 16th, 2009 at 3:10 am
These programs require belief in a power greater than ourselves. That power can be a God, the universe, the world, whatever works for you. Just as long as it’s something greater than you are.
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22 years in Al-Anon
September 16th, 2009 at 3:59 am
I have asked this question before and got some good answers.
I’ll try to find it.
Edit:
Oh I cant find it through the search and I havent the time to search through 165 of my own questions lol.
Hope you get sufficient responses.
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Atheist
September 16th, 2009 at 4:08 am
I’d have to no. At least they wouldn’t work for me, not unless I actually start believing in God anyway.
The basic premises of a faith based help group would be in conflict with my current philosophies.
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September 16th, 2009 at 4:19 am
Believing in a higher power that is greater than one’s self serves to humble a person to the point of accepting advice from others or even accepting God’s Word as truth. A true atheist would never be able to accept a power higher then themselves because that is what makes them an atheist. False pride is the greatest of all sins and only humility can cure it. This is the reason for so much religious and political warfare on planet earth.
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Personal Experience!
September 16th, 2009 at 4:37 am
I was in an outpatient "detox" program for excessive alcohol consumption that used AA techniques. As part of the program we were expected to attend a few regular AA meetings.
I found the regular AA meetings almost useless because of the heavily god-oriented rhetoric and activities.
The outpatient program used a little more discussion and we could talk through this aspect of things and the activities were much less "religious." In this context, I could transpose the phrase "higher power" to the term "external help" getting away from the god issue. I could admit that I needed external help, i.e. the group, the moderator, the guest speakers, the literature, without deifying any of it.
It was enough for me. I have been alcohol free for over a year.
Unfortunately, I was unable to locate any Rational Recovery group, and indeed I sent for some material from such a group and received nothing for my money. I did find a couple books, but it did not add significantly to the outpatient group experience.
I know that if I were seriously addicted to anything, I would follow the advice and attend AA/NA/etc meetings. And do the appropriate transposing in my mind. Because I do think that external help is quite necessary.
I do not know if you are a reader, but if you are so inclined, I would recommend the novel "Infinite Jest" by David Foster Wallace. It is a long book, but there are some very good narrative riffs about AA philosophy. It helped me come to terms with my experience.
Mona Lisa: I just want to second your description of the AA experience–the contradictions are there.
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September 16th, 2009 at 4:47 am
As a former AA member (and what I suppose you’d refer to as a "sober alcoholic" since I haven’t had a drink in almost 10 years) I can tell you that if you went to an AA meeting and asked this question people would be screaming that the program is "spiritual and not religious" and that your higher power can be anything you want it to be, including a doorknob. Then, after the meeting was over, you’d all hold hands and say the Lord’s Prayer. Yep. I’m serious.
This is one of the many bizarre and contradictory things about AA. Of course it’s religious, the 12 steps are ALL about God, the primary text says the program is about "fitting ourselves to be of maximum service to God and our fellows"…yet its members claim it isn’t religious. Preposterous, isn’t it?
Now, do people who aren’t religious fail in the program? They sure do. And so do people who ARE religious. That’s another bizarre and contradictory fact not only about AA but about the whole 12 step based "addiction treatment" industry: it doesn’t work very well for ANYONE but it continues to be the almost the only game in town.
Go figure!
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Lots and lots of experience.